Tom McGurk: Confused about religious education

Letter in today’s Sunday Business Post (Sub. reqd).

Most of the letters page (7 out of 10) was taken up with reaction to McGurk’s article (Teaching religion is of primary importance, SBP April 15) . Only one agreed with his ill informed views.

This strong anti- religious, anti-Catholilc response seems to be the norm in recent years – long may it last.

Sir,

The underlying message to be taken from Tom McGurk’s article on religious education in schools is that any withdrawal of Christian religious teaching will damage the moral and ethical formation of children.

This narrow view suggests that the moral and ethical standards of billions of non-Christians and non-believers are, at best, inferior, and, at worst, irrelevant.

Human morality is a natural, evolutionary aspect of all humanity, not the invention of any one particular god.

If parents want to indoctrinate their children into a particular religion, they should do so themselves with the support of their particular church.
The State should play no part in religious indoctrination.

Your etc.,
Anthony Sheridan
Cobh

Catholic militant, Senator Mullen, gets his answer

I was in the process of responding to an article by catholic militant Senator Rónán Mullen in which he spouts his usual intolerant demand that taxpayers should pay to have children indoctrinated into the superstitions of his particular religion when I read the following excellent letter.

Mr. Peregrine says pretty much what I had in mind.

Sir,

The debate that has been carried out in this paper through the articles by John Waters, Senator Ronan Mullen and Paul Rowe and the letters submitted by readers has exposed a very ugly side to our little country.

Those who argue for secularism (a separation of church and state) have variously been accused of being unthinking monkeys and incapable of teaching morality or dealing with bereavement.

These are the type of articles one might expect to find in state papers in the theocracies that Mary O’Dowd (Letters April 18th) believes we should look towards for guidance.

A bit of clarity needs to be introduced to this debate to wash away the mud that is being slung about.

The State has a responsibility to provide an education for every child in this State, however, this does not mean that the State has an obligation to provide a particular religious education for every citizen.

John Waters and Senator Mullen’s arguments about the merits of a Catholic education and the hazards of atheism are irrelevant.

They can educate their own children however they see fit.

The argument should remain focused on whether the State should fund denominational primary schooling or provide non- denominational education and allow parents to indoctrinate their children outside the classroom.

If the State chooses to continue funding denominational education then it must provide schooling for all children be they the children of Catholic, Jedi or Jewish parents.

A Mormon child on Inis Meain would need and should be entitled to his/her own school if the current system were to be continued.

The current fudge means that most non-Catholic children are forced to attend Catholic schools and have to sit out while preparations are made for the various sacraments and rituals that are such a large part of the Catholic primary school curriculum.

In a non- denominational system no child would be forced to exclude themselves from the class and all children could receive indoctrination from their parents after school or in their various churches, mosques or temples.

This argument has been framed as one about freedom for religion to distract from the basic constitutional right of freedom from religion.

Nowhere has it been argued that parents should be denied the right to educate their children in whatever “ethos” they choose to subscribe to.

What “secularists” have been arguing for is a right to have their child educated free from any religious indoctrination.

Yours, etc,

Andrew Peregrine
Alen Park Drive,
Stillorgan,
Co Dublin.

John Waters and chimpanzee secularists

Religious fanatic John Waters wrote a deeply insulting article in last Friday’s Irish Times in which he referred to those who would challenge his particular god as chimpanzees who make bogus claims on reason.

If children are not indoctrinated into the ways of his particular god Waters claims they will be taught (by their chimpanzee parents) that they are:

The accidental offspring of the pointless oozing of primordial slime, units of meat and bone.

I wonder if this fanatic would have the courage to repeat such insults in the presence of the parents he targets. Somehow, I doubt it.

Recently, I asked:

Is John Waters becoming an embarrassment to the Irish Times.

My question was prompted after reading an editorial that described Waters’ religious views as overblown rhetoric bordering on the comical.

In his article on Friday Waters hit back by describing two recent editorials on religion as:

An unstudied doublethink, a lazy, unthinking flip-flopping between two diametrically incompatible positions.

It will be interesting to see if the editor responds

I include below responses by Irish Times readers to Waters’ insulting and intolerant article.

The letter by Geraldine Moorkens Byrne is of particular note.

Sir,

John Waters (Opinion, April 13th) is entitled to his personal beliefs, but making offensive judgments about a form of education received by thousands of Irish children and the choices made by their parents is an abuse of his position as a columnist.

I write as a mother of two thriving young adults whose very different personalities and beliefs were encouraged to grow in a secular education setting.

The parents of 14,000 children are currently choosing Educate Together schools.

Thankfully the measured tone of the article by Paul Rowe of Educate Together (Opinion, April 12th) offers us a buffer against the harshness and intolerance behind John Waters’s references to “functionaries rather than mature beings animated with affection and curiosity” and terms such as “primordial slime” and “units of meat and bone”.

Attitudes like those of John Waters are exactly what we are trying to save our offspring from.

Yours, etc,

Maureen Rowan,

Northbrook Avenue,

Ranelagh, Dublin 6.

Sir,

Congratulations to The Irish Times for publishing and to John Waters for writing this article.

It is important, pertinent and timely.

Furthermore, it is absolutely superb.

Yours, etc,

James Dundon, MD

Bushy Park Road, Terenure,

Dublin 6.

Sir,

John Waters paints a bleak picture of our society should religious education be removed from our schools (Opinion, April 13th) A very bleak picture indeed.

Luckily it’s merely the product of his overheated imagination rather than any prediction grounded in reality.

Considering the track record of abuse in this country, perpetrated by religious orders, in the name of religion, John Waters has no business criticising atheists.

Many of the greatest humanitarians, free thinkers, social campaigners and all round decent people are atheists.

However he also overlooks a simple fact – removing religion from schools has nothing to do with removing religion from society.

If you believe in your religion, whatever that might be, you don’t need the school system or society to back you up.

His Christ must indeed be dying if he needs the schools to ensure his continued presence.

Here’s an idea. Let parents take charge of religious education and leave the school system open to all, regardless of their faith, or lack thereof.

Let parents take their children to their place of worship, prepare them for their rituals and rites of passage and generally encourage them in their path.

And let schools teach them facts, figures, and how to be citizens of a State where everyone is equal, and no one religion oppresses another.

And where not believing in a mysterious sky fairy doesn’t automatically mean you see yourself as primordial slime.

Yours, etc,

Geraldine Moorkens Byrne,

Brookfield, Dublin 12.

Sir,

Surely John Waters’s extraordinary article on religious instruction in schools (Opinion, April 13th) is one of the most compelling reasons yet for speeding up the complete separation of schooling and religious instruction.

This would allow those of all persuasions freedom to have their children develop in an open manner which would help in developing their curiosity, ethics and principles.

I find it rather scary that John Waters would categorise anyone as a fusion of meat and bone emanating from the primordial slime, and therefore I can only wish Ruairí Quinn the very best in his endeavours to democratise the educational process.

This will also establish the right to religious instruction for those who desire it without inflicting their beliefs on those who differ in faith, logic and curiosity of their existence!

Yours, etc,

Bernard Delaney

Doolin, Co Clare.

State/Catholic child indoctrination rule recommended for deletion

The Advisory Group on Patronage and Pluralism in national schools has recommended that Rule 68 should be deleted as soon as possible.

Rule 68 is a rule issued by representatives of the Catholic god when they wielded total power in our schools and begins:

Of all parts of a school curriculum Religious Instruction is by far the most important, as its subject matter, God’s honour and service, includes the proper use of all man’s faculties, and affords the most powerful inducements to their proper use.

Thankfully, this state supported religious indoctrination/abuse of innocent children is rapidly coming to an end.

Here’s the rule in full:

Rule 68

Of all parts of a school curriculum Religious Instruction is by far the most important, as its subject matter, God’s honour and service, includes the proper use of all man’s faculties, and affords the most powerful inducements to their proper use.

Religious Instruction is, therefore, a fundamental part of the school course, and a religious spirit should inform and vivify the whole work of the school.

The teacher should constantly inculcate the practice of charity, justice, truth, purity, patience, temperance, obedience to lawful authority, and all the other moral virtues.

In this way he will fulfil the primary duty of an educator, the moulding to perfect form of his pupils’ character, habituating them to observe, in their relations with God and with their neighbours, the laws which God, both directly through the dictates of natural reason and through Revelation, and indirectly through the ordinance of lawful authority, imposes on mankind.

Catholic militant; Senator Mullen, lectures RTE on ethical standards

The obnoxious militant Catholic Senator Ronan Mullen was on Today with Pat Kenny (4th April) lecturing RTE for its treatment of Fr. Reynolds.

When I listen to this individual pontificating on morality, ethics and accountability I keep in mind that he’s a dedicated defender of the Catholic Church, an organisation responsible for the child abuse holocaust and the almost equal horror of actively working to help its criminal priests from being brought to justice.

Apparently, Mullen is pleased with RTEs new journalism guidelines.

I’m very impressed with what I’ve seen. If this is allowed to permeate the culture of the entire organisation and isn’t just a manual that is reached for when something goes wrong then I think we’re heading for better standards.

Better standards in RTE, he means, not the Catholic Church.

On RTE journalists:

I’d be more concerned about the lack of taking personal responsibility. I didn’t like the ruling out of sackings by RTE when this broke first.

What I would like to see is the people who are directly involved indicate that personally they regret what had happened; there’s still a little bit of hiding behind the institution.

He means RTE journalists hiding behind the institution, not Catholic priests, bishops, cardinals and popes.

Irish Times religious correspondent Patsy McGarry quickly got the measure of this individual.

Part of the tragedy of the Mission to Prey programme is that it has lent so much ammunition to people like Senator Mullen coming from his very, very narrow perspective.

I would also agree with McGarry’s summing up of RTEs major contribution to exposing child abuse by the Catholic Church.

In the context of what happened to Fr. Reynolds it has a very, very proud history particularly in the area of child abuse. RTEs contribution has been colossal.

Mary Raftery’s documentary, States of Fear, probably one of the most influential documentaries ever broadcast on Irish television which led to the setting up of the Ryan Commission, the Redress Board and the findings of Ryan published in 2009.

Mary Raftery’s Cardinal Secrets programme in 2002 which exposed what Ronan and others had been managing in the Dublin archdiocese.

Copy to:

Senator Mullen
Patsy McGarry

John Waters; an atheist? And Bertie Ahern is an honest man

The Editor of Secular Sunday ends his weekly report on happenings within the world of atheism with the advice – stay skeptical.

And that is exactly where I stand after reading an article by militant Catholic John Waters who, we are asked to believe, has become an atheist.

Methinks the clue lies in the date of the article.

John Waters: God says the Pope will visit Ireland

Speaking recently on the Marian Finucane Show Archbishop Diarmuid Martin expressed the view that the time is not right for a visit to Ireland by the Pope.

Some days later, Cardinal Sean Brady expressed the opposite view.

My hope is that the moment would be right.

Most ordinary people would see this disagreement as simply two different interpretations of the current relationship between the Vatican and Ireland.

Irish Catholic columnist John Waters, however, is no ordinary man.

Mr. Waters has detected a mysterious force in the sentence voiced by Cardinal Brady (Irish Catholic).

The following quotes provide a good idea of Waters’ thinking.

Should we be thinking about such a matter (a visit by the Pope) on the basis of normal intuitive or rational criteria?

There is something deeply intriguing about that sentence: My hope is that the moment would be right.

Beneath the lightness of the tone, I detected a gentle emphasis in the cardinal’s intervention that seemed to draw attention to a wholly different way of looking at things.

Shouldn’t the criteria by which we consider such a vital question include some possibility for the intervention of the mysterious source of our existence, which is the very basis of Christian faith?

And, finally, the clincher conclusion.

I am probably reading too much into it, but this is what I see in that rather glancing difference of opinion between Archbishop Martin and Cardinal Brady.

One was speaking to a political context; the other was addressing the total spectrum of possibility implied by the Incarnation.

So there you have it.

It would seem the Pope will be visiting after all and that’s straight from the mouth of god almighty himself with just a slight detour through John Waters’ brain.

Religious dinosaur (Senator Hanafin) emerges from the undergrowth

Atheist Ireland has written to all members of the respective Committees on Procedure and Privilege of both the Dail and the Seanad requesting that the Oireachtas cease the practice of starting daily business with a prayer.

The letter quotes the opinion of Senator John Hanafin from 2007.

I welcome that we pray every morning in the Chamber before conducting our business. It allows us to renew our efforts to do our best and invoke God to assist us in our efforts.

I note societies that turned their back on God — fascist and communist — and relied solely on Man’s logic, rose and fell quickly.

Ok, I know that our body politic is full of representatives who are ignorant when it comes to history/philosophy but it’s rare enough these days to see such dinosaurs actually emerge from the undergrowth.

Is John Waters becoming an embarrassment to the Irish Times?

Catholic militant John Waters went a bit mad on Newstalk’s Sunday Show recently (12th Feb. 2nd part) during a discussion on the closure of the Irish embassy to the Vatican.

He returned to the issue in the Irish Times (17th Feb.) and was obviously still very angry at the evil conspiracy to do down his beloved Catholic Church.

The closure was, according to Waters:

An opportunistic act of neurotic bigotry by militant atheists seeking to impose their myopic beliefs on the rest of us.

Throwing in the usual stuff about an implacable media hostility towards the Catholic Church he tells us that the closure of the embassy is all part of a slithery agenda by the Labour Party.

This mad rant, of course, is par for the course for Waters as he continues his ever-quickening descent into the dark pit of religious fundamentalism.

The immediate (editorial) response from the editor of the Irish Times (Sat. 18th) was, however, surprising and, in my opinion, very welcome.

Here’s some of what he had to say:

Commentators have complained of a media culture that excludes or marginalises religious ideas, and even of the closure of the Vatican embassy as the product of a “militant atheist” Labour agenda.

The overblown rhetoric is almost comical, if not an insult to those who labour under real tyranny.

But is there a germ of truth? Are we really living in an age of liberal intolerance?

Hardly. In truth the reality of declining influence and deference – even within their own faith communities – is difficult to adjust to and accept.

Denial starts with blame. Shoot the messenger, the infernal media!

But amid the recriminations, compelling evidence of systematic media disparaging of religion has not been forthcoming.

I couldn’t agree more and I wonder if Waters is becoming an embarrassment to the Irish Times.

I wonder if the the editor is, perhaps, hinting that it’s time for him to move on.

Christopher Hitchens death: A great loss to humanity

The great Christopher Hitchens has died.

Journalist, literary critic, polemicist and constant scourge of those who promote religious superstition, Hitchens is a great loss to humanity.

It is reported that he was writing right up to his death which reminds me of another great philosopher/writer/atheist – Bertrand Russell.

Russell was still writing on the day he died in 1970 at the grand old age of 98.

Many years previously, in 1921, while on a lecture tour in China, Russell became so ill that he had the pleasure of reading his own obituary notices.

One missionary paper had an obituary notice of just one sentence which read:

Missionaries may be pardoned for heaving a sigh of relief at the news of Mr. Bertrand Russell’s death.

No doubt many purveyors of religious superstition will be greatly relieved on hearing of Mr. Hitchens passing but I believe he will continue to inspire through his writings, lectures and debates.