What John White alleged

Here are some parts of the transcripts from Morris. Morris reacted with exasperation that Gardai may be bugging solicitors.

Chair: You have mentioned bugging and similar type activities?
White: There was Chairman, yes
Chair: Are you aware of other members who actually witnessed this type of unauthorized activity?
White: I would be aware from experience, Chairman, of particular members in Dublin. But in relation to bugging and perhaps this is of no interest to you, but it is of interest to me, it’s outside of Donegal but Sargeant Thomas Murphy and Garda James McGrath did witness bugging of an interview room and they were beside the man and the machine and they can name the man that was using it and the made statements to that effect. They cam to the Tribunal here one day and they met me at the back of the Tribunal in the corner there some time ago, maybe a year and a half ago, and they told me that they were quite willing to give evidence about all this. It was in a murder case in Cork in ’92 and they can definitely give sworn evidence that the interview room was bugged and they saw it happening and they heard it happening.
Chair: Are they prepared to come forward and confirm that to the Tribunal?
White: They are and they have made statements to their own superintendent about it. There was supposed to be an investigation but I believe it was a cover-up – – well they believe it was a cover-up and they have told me that. They have all the reports, all the documentation necessary to show that.

Ref 747:

McDermott: Just in relation to the bugging issue and the reference which you made in the broader sense to the existence of bugging in other circumstances, on other occasions and the one incident that you were able to concretize in relation to the Chairman in relation to the Cork matter?
White: Yes
McDermott: And the two men you named, and we won’t name again. I have asked for a search to be done in relation to correspondence to the Tribunal and just as a matter of record, one of the gentlemen did initially write to the Tribunal concerning a matter in Cork relating to bugging and was told by the Tribunal that it was outside the Terms of Reference of the Tribunal. Of course strictly speaking it was. Now, your allegation in relation to the bugging, the generalized bugging issue is now a much wider allegation as and of course what you are saying now is in relation to that particular incident is that as far as you are concerned, it is an example of your general allegation that this was widespread throughout the force; isn’t that right?
White: Yes. Mr. McDermott, that’s right.
McDermott: Thereby making what well may be or may have been deemed to be a matter outside the Terms of Reference relevant to your presentation to the Tribunal. That’s why you are referring to it; is that right?
White: Very strongly, Chairman, yes. I find it very difficult to get people to come forward in relation to this. That is one particular situation. I would very much appreciate if the Tribunal would hear evidence in the future.

Ref 288:

White: Chairman, at this stage it would be appropriate for the senior Garda authority to come clean in relation to bugging. It cannot be covered up. There are at least two hundred men alive at the moment, and women, probably a lot more, who know exactly what went on over the years, some of them are still serving in the job, and to try and cover it up on a nationwide scale, it can’t be done. It just can’t be done. It did happen. The equipment was bought and purchased at extensive cost to do it. It was not a universal approach, in certain cases they were done and it’s not just down to interview rooms. It’s houses, cars, apartments and phones. And it’s done illegally, totally illegally, and the senior Garda authority know this is the case. I know that I am saying it on oath. I can give you specific – in the next module.
Chair: Sargeant White, what concerns me is the suggestion, more than a suggestion, the statement that is apparently before, that solicitors consultation were being bugged.
White: Yes.
Chair: Whether listening devices are used outside of that –
White: Oh yes.
Chair: – is a matter that I haven’t got to concern myself with. But I do have to concern myself with the allegation that in these particular cases the solicitors’ consultations were bugged.
White: Yes
Chair: You’re saying that happened
White: It happened
Chair: And you saying that it happened as a matter of practice elsewhere; is that correct?
White: Yes
Chair: Solicitors’ consultations?
White: In face I personally heard, Chairman, that one priest was bugged talking to a prisoner. I can give the name of the prisoner. It’s quite some time ago.
Chair: Solicitors, is that what we are talking about?
White: Right, yes. Yes, of course to try and glean any information that would progress the investigation. It wouldn’t be used afterwards, it couldn’t be used obviously, look, I did it but I’m not going to say a word, I am going to keep quiet. Then you’d be on the right track, you couldn’t use it but it would be a great help.
Chair: And that was done with the knowledge and approval of senior officers, you’re saying?
White: It would be done, yes, with the D/I or the D/Super in the area.